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  #1  
Old Sep 4, 2003, 09:54 PM
telcoman telcoman is offline
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Winipeg has a jazz station how come we don't?

I see the new jazz station in Winipeg is now on the air. If a city 1/3 the size of vancouver can support a full time jazz staion how come we can't? The CRTC in its wisdom awarded the last available frequency in the city to yet another rock station of which there seem to be dozens already. I guess our only hope is for Izzy Asper to buy out one of the existing stations.
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  #2  
Old Sep 4, 2003, 11:58 PM
Steve Steve is offline
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I completely aggree and I wish there was a 24/7 jazz station in Vancouver...... but....... I think if there the demand for one, there would be one. We can't fill the Cultch for ANY jazz show, and the Cellar goes under capacity on most nites. I doubt that enough people would be regular listeners for any station to open up. I wish there were though...
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  #3  
Old Sep 5, 2003, 07:09 AM
Allan Johnston Allan Johnston is offline
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You know 97 KISS FM? Light Rock, Less Tal....zzzzzzzz? That used to be CJAZ...

Allan
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  #4  
Old Sep 5, 2003, 11:39 AM
John Korsrud John Korsrud is offline
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Light Rock, Less Talent?
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  #5  
Old Sep 5, 2003, 06:23 PM
cweeds cweeds is offline
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I agree

I agree with all of you that it would be great to have an all jazz radio station here in Vancouver but echo the comments of Steve. We can barely support one full-time jazz club in this city which makes it hard for me to believe that a radio station with the same format could exist. I think it would be cool to start a station that catered to the more alternative music's and include jazz, blues and world music and it might stand a chance but I don't see an all jazz station surviving in this market but god would I loved to be proven wrong.
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  #6  
Old Sep 5, 2003, 06:42 PM
Brian Nation Brian Nation is offline
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Weeds, you've got one of the best jazz clubs in the country and you're celebrating your 3rd anniversary this weekend. So what's with the "barely support one full-time jazz club" negativity?

Jazz is not and never was (unless you count Benny Goodman or something) an extremely popular art form. So what? We love it and we listen to it and some of us play it and we keep it alive.

And there's plenty on the radio if you look for it.

And Vancouver could and would support two or three real jazz clubs.

And has anybody actually heard this Winnipeg "jazz" station?

Cry babies!!!

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  #7  
Old Sep 5, 2003, 08:07 PM
Steve Steve is offline
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Perhaps someone who has studied ecanomics and supply/demand could add to this..... but if there was a demand for jazz venues, wouldn't there be more? You can take pretty much Jazz Festival Show and it's NOT sold out. The only ones I heard of this year selling out were Kenny Wheeler/Jon Bently and Antibalis Afrobeat Orchestra. If the Cellar was constantly selling out both sets on the weekend 2 or 3 weeks in advance, another similar venue would appear (run by Cory, or someone else.) I LOVE what's going on in Vancouver and I appreciate and recognize the work that Cory, CJB, Brian and countless others do, but I think that if there was a larger demand, a supply would be created.
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  #8  
Old Sep 5, 2003, 11:09 PM
telcoman telcoman is offline
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Actually, I listened to the new Winipeg station on the net. Sounded pretty good to me, emphasis on more traditional jazz rather than modern smooth jazz type format, but generally a pretty good mix. I read in the paper that jazz cd sales are booming, possibly as baby boomers growing tired of rock are looking for wider music experiences. Maybe the radio station owners will start to notice. I fail to see how 7 Vancouver FM stations manage to make a living with rock formats. CFMI & Jack are virtually the same . The beat & 95.3 are virtually the same, Fox & 104.9 are virtually the same. Its a wasteland of sameness out there. Only the CBC outlets, the 2 university stations & CoOp offer anything different. I have nothing against rock, I listen to a fair bit of it myself, but I would sure like some choice. I listen to KPLU at home, but in the car its useless, especially since that new rock station in Victoria on 91.3 screwed up the signal from their Bellingham translator.
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  #9  
Old Sep 6, 2003, 12:18 PM
cweeds cweeds is offline
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Don't mean to be negative

I certainly don't mean to come across as being negative Nation but its a true reality. I mean there are serveral venues in this city that are trying to follow an all jazz format. The Cellar is really the only dedicted listening venue and I think that because of the talent thats booked there it should be packed every night. It continues to be a struggle and it probably always will be its just the reality of jazz in Vancouver.
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  #10  
Old Sep 9, 2003, 12:53 PM
Guy Guy is offline
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I don't think it's quite accurate to say that Vancouver barely supports one jazz club. When the vast majority of Vancouverites have never even heard of the club, it's not necessarily their fault. When the tourist market hasn't been tapped or the local foreign press hasn't been advertised in, coupled (or tripled?) with the fact that the Cellar is in the middle of nowhere (that'll get some of you!), you can't really use that as a reflection of the people's appetite for live jazz.
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  #11  
Old Sep 9, 2003, 01:51 PM
Steve Steve is offline
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Whoa..... The Cellar (located in the middle of Kits/Dunbar) is NOT in the middle of nowhere. There is a huge university 5 minutes away not to mention all the schools/business/families on the west side of Vancouver.

How come other cities MUCH smaller then Vancouver can have multiple rehersal bands but Vancouver can't? You can go to Jazz Shows all year long and they aren't sold out. Excluding the jazz fest, I think the last sold out show I was at was the Basie Band (7 years ago)
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  #12  
Old Sep 9, 2003, 03:08 PM
Morgan Childs Morgan Childs is offline
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Although I agree with you Steve, the Cellar is definitly NOT in an optimum location for the crowd it's trying to target. This is my question: WHERE ARE THE CROWDS???? People flock to the jazz festival... A QUARTER OF A MILLION F**KING PEOPLE!!! I was at the Surrey Central Mall to see another crowd of at least 2000 on Sunday. All I kept hearing from everyon around me was "Oh wow... what a great bunch of talent we have. All local... wow, those young folks in Sekoya sure are great.... Wow... Crash sounded so good, and a jazz legend onstage to boot! Wish we could see more of that kind of thing...." etc etc etc.... Where are the people in the clubs? Where are those same people that say they want more? You want more Alvin (the star saxophonist of Sekoya fame)-- he plays with my trio EVERY FRIDAY. We can't keep claiming lack of knowlege, or lack of coverage or lack of location! Brian has a website dedicated to exposing people to jazz in this city! I look at the Calender.... there are FOUR GIGS "competing" with mine on Friday and Saturday night, in rooms where people go to listen to jazz. How is it possible that the website gets 1500 hits a day or whatever, and NONE of these people come to any of those gigs? The Cellar will fill up for Cam/Renee (I'll be there on Sunday, of course). That's (with the Cellar's 80 seat capacity, and lets say a 50 percent turnover each night) 340 people will go see jazz at the Cellar this weekend. I expect maybe 20 or 30 people at my gigs this Friday and Saturday.... That's a total of..... 400 people between two venues will see jazz in Vancouver this weekend. I'm sure Bob and Jennifer will get the usual 12 people or so that actually go to O'douls to LISTEN, and the Ousi Bistro will likely have about the same amount as Bogart's. Let's say (conservative estimate)... 500 people, in total, will patronize jazz this weekend, in a city with .... HALF A MILLION PEOPLE IN VANCOUVER, and TWO MILLION IN THE GVRD!!! Estimating Brian's website recieves about 1500 hits a day, that's A THOUSAND people unaccounted for! Is my math fucked up? This seems just wrong. I know everyone who patronizes jazz on a regular basis in the city ON A FIRST NAME BASIS (thankyou, Joan). In a city with some ridiculous talent... there should be people FLOCKING TO SEE JAZZ AT THE CLUBS!!! How many people are going to go see John McLaughlin in a couple weeks and are going to miss Bill Coon next time he's at the Cellar? How many people will go see the Mingus Big Band, and then miss Seamus when he comes to sit in at the Cellar (I don't know if he's going to do that, I'm just saying... it's happened before, and I wouldn't be surprised). How many people are going to PAY GOOD MONEY to subscribe to CJBS's mailing list, attend every concert at 50 bucks a ticket, and then NEVER go to the Cellar, or make any effort whatsoever to stay abreast of the local talent? Do we really have two "factions" battling each other in this city? I'd like to think we're smarter than that... shouldn't we all be working for a common goal? In the past two months, I've played at the Cellar twice, O'douls twice, my own gig at Bogart's 8 or 10 times.... I've attended shows at the Cellar three or four times, O'doul's three or four times, and plan on attending two CJBS shows next month (MINGUS BB, VANCOUVER COBRA). And I'm a PLAYER. If half the so-called "jazz fans" in this city took the miniscule effort to attend one local jazz show a week. Hell, a MONTH. Anyway, i know we've talked about this before... but what can be done? Ok, that's my rant for the day.... please, i know people sign on here and read this shit.... sign up and comment on it!
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  #13  
Old Sep 10, 2003, 08:49 AM
cweeds cweeds is offline
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I like it Guy, takin shots at me. Nice!! You're right though, I haven't explored all the avenues for advertising especailly the tourist and foreign markets. You have suggested some things and I have not followed up. Having said that, the location of The Cellar has no bearing on why we're not full every night. Live music in every genre suffers on every night except Friday and Saturday. The busiest night the Hollywood North ever had was their closing night with Hugh Fraser. Hollywood North, The Cotton Club, Alma Street....need I go on about places that have failed for various different reasons but the main one being lack of patrons. The Cellar gets tons of free advertising. For example Dr. Lonnie Smith got us articles in WHERE MAGAZINE ( A TOURIST MAG), The Courier, The Vancouver Sun, The Province, an interview on CKNW, CBC and COOP RADIO. The Kenny Garret Show got all of the above plus a major feature on GLOBAL and "Oh my god, a blurb in the STRAIGHT" I don't really know what else I can possibly do to increase awareness with the exception of a few small things. The Cellar is the best location for the people we're tyring to attract. There is a nice balance of students as well as middle age people with lots of disposable income. The rent is the most reasonable in the City. The old Fogg and Suds on Broadway and Cambie- $17000 per month. Forget downtown. Main Street? Try to get people to pay $35 for Kenny Garrett and see how much luck you have.
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  #14  
Old Sep 10, 2003, 08:52 AM
cweeds cweeds is offline
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Morgan, NICE WORK! You go boy. All good shit you said and I agree one hundred percent. I don't want people to take my stuff the wrong way. Im not complaining, I love what I do and will continue to do it. Its a process and it takes time and with people like myself, Nation, Morgan and so many other people that dedicate their lives to exposing this music to more people, it will happen!!! YAHOO!!!!
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  #15  
Old Sep 10, 2003, 10:10 AM
Ryga Ryga is offline
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Look, a couple of bad months could no doubt sink Cory's Cellar, that's how finite the line is when we're discussing Vancouver overhead. That's as good a reason as any to me for not having a Jazz Club in the downtown core. And there's nothing wrong with that - it's the reality of living here. We can live in the lower mainland and still have acsess something we all consider culturally viable and significant to us and to other people as well. That's how any decent grass roots movement gets started and I use that term because it's accurate. Vancouver has had a number of venues featuring Jazz that were expected to operate at a loss, and if they didn't, they'd disappear - look at the Alma Street Cafe for instance. The Cotton Club? How about Masa at Hollywood North, who expected to be open for one year and ONLY one year.

It'd be hard to get to Chilliwack to go to a Jazz Club where the overhead would no doubt be lower, not that it wouldn't be nice to see one there. But out lying communities like that - in places like Europe, it's not at all unusual to find clubs in them.

We can talk about other Canadian cities, downtown Toronto for instance, where the overhead is also very high. Musicians there know that it's good for the community to support a venue in hopes that it'll be around a good long time, build momentum and give the guys a place to play. Audience will go there because I've found that by and large people are more culturally aware of the local community in Toronto - and there's not the competition with the enviroment as we have here - when in winter time we're in dire need of a 6 lane highway to Whistlerect... and in the summer - you get my drift I hope. People back east are trying to get out of that mostly inhospitable enviroment much of the time and they're more apt to come to a club to be stimulated culturally, put in the simplest of terms.
And there again, CJRT, at least in the past when Ted O'Rielly was involved, did a stellar job at 'keeping people aware of the local community'. And people would listen - a lot of people. Very viable media support by and large in that city which certainly hasn't hurt the jazz audience at all but has been the reason that so many places have existed there for as long as they have.

But with that you'll always get a degree of the 'fashionable' crowd that really no nothing about jazz but know that being in proximity to it is important - there's a reality we can all relate too... That's another by product of the popularity of these venues - look at Ronnie Scotts for instance. Arguably the most popular Jazz Club in western Europe, do you think 8 out of 10 people come for the music? And it's a big place. In fact I have a friend in London who worked there for a week, one night his acoustic bass player showed up only 10 minutes before the start of the set - Stan could see him at the front door - but the bass player couldn't get to the stage so they had to the the first set without him.

So Cory, here's to you needing to put in a rear 'musicians entrance' to the club. I hope it needs to one day happen! Also, I still think a heavy screen dropping from the ceiling in the front and on the side of the stage is a good way to give us a band room between sets!
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