Kentish Steele

[Brian Nation]

Greg wrote: (http://vancouverjazz.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=363) A month or so ago, at an obscure community hall in deepest Surrey, I nearly ripped my teeth out and tore my face apart while listening to NTR back up Kentish Steele singing James Brown's I'll Go Crazy. Kentish is still playing? Wow. I see him around the West End all the time. He's a masseur at one of the fitness joints around here. Anyone remember when he ran for mayor?

[Morgan Childs]

A "masseur?"

[Mel]

"masseur": a man whose work is massaging. (Webster's)

[Morgan Childs]

I definitly didn't mean to apply any sort of extracurricular meaning to the word... I just thought that that term was a little dated? I thought most "masseurs" or "masseusses" prefer the term "massage therapist", no? But it's way off topic anyway... is this fellow a singer? Jazz or more bluesey/soul stuff? Where does he sing?

[Greg]

Here’s a long, rambling response to Morgan’s question. Be forewarned this might be off-topic for a jazz forum.
Kentish Steele is a talented singer who was one of the mainstays of this city’s thriving R&B scene in the 60s. I lost track of him for many years, probably because I spent most of my adult life outside Vancouver. (Did he win his bid for mayor?)
But I saw him last November, for the first time in yonks, when he sang at the Night Train Revue’s 40th anniversary gig. And again with NTR a month or two ago in Surrey. (My dentist and plastic surgeon have since warned me about Kentish Steele, NTR, and James Brown songs taken in combination.)
NTR’s lineup changes slightly on different dates, but the band has something like 17 players, including a five-piece horn section (with a fucking bari!).
And that’s not counting the singers. Again the lineup varies, but could include Suzanne Cliff, her two daughters, Billy Dixon, Harry Walker, Sybel Thrasher and Hans Stamer, as well as Steele. Carl Graves flew in from LA for the 40th anniversary gig. I heard Jason Hoover was invited, but couldn’t make it.
Most of these singers, like Steele, fronted their own bands during R&B’s halcyon days.
Brian Tansley and Brian Pulham, sax and bass players respectively with Steele, each provides a good account of the period (and of the Northwest Sound, an Oregon-Washington-B.C. rock style with a strong R&B influence) at http://theregents.net/shantelles.html
These days, NTR gigs usually sell out in advance with little or no publicity. I learn of them through the occasional three-line blurb appearing in the Queue music listings, which come with the Thursday Sun. If you like James Brown, Aretha, Redding, Pickett, the Stax-Volt crowd and so on, you’ll want to check out NTR.
John, I agree that King Size is a great fucking tune, something of a tour de force (even if the back-up vocals are a little, umm, off). Also, as a Vancouver native I’m flattered that a Seattle expatriate, who arrived in the early 70s after all that had peaked, appreciates this city’s R&B heritage. Of course, you have an R&B background yourself.
But enough about the past. Morgan asked what kind of music Steele does now and where he performs. All I know of are the NTR gigs. Maybe he’s up to other stuff as well.
Talk to us, Kentish!

[John Doheny]

Well all I can say Greg is that Seattle ain't that far away. I tend to think of that whole scene as more or less a homogenous "Northwest R&B" thing anyway since a lot of the same bands worked clubs in both cities as well as Portland and Eugene etc. And don't forget Jimi Hendrix ( who grew up just FOUR BLOCKS from me, man I was blown away when I found that out ) was the guitar player with Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers for a while, and also used to play Pharoah's Retreat in Gastown with his own band before he went to England and became a big deal.

Anyway, I played in a couple bands in the 80's with Reyal Johnston and Doug Cuthbert and they schooled me up good and proper on a lot of this local lore.

[Brian Nation]

Kentish is more on topic than hockey. The term masseur may be outdated but then, thankfully, so am I, so to me it's the latest thing. Kentish lost out to probably Jack Volrich (I don't recall which election exactly but I'm sure I voted for him). His band, if I recall correctly, was The Shandells. I have no idea if it has anything to do with Pia Shandell but I hope not, even though she was hipper then than now and actually was a waitress at Oil Can Harry's for a few weeks. Kentish has a son, also Kentish, whom I met at the Cellar a year or two ago so this thread does have jazz relevance. I asked around and Kentish apparently doesn't have a computer so he probably won't be talking to us.

Ooops . . . I just checked and it wasn't The Shandells, it was the Shantelles, but I'm leaving that bit in because how else can I work Pia into the jazz forum?

[Morgan Childs]

Greg... thankyou very much. R+B is my (not so) secret love... I'd love to check this guy out. Sounds like he's got some serious heritage that he's bringing to the game...

[Greg]

A shame we won’t be hearing from Kentish.
John, I knew that Jimi Hendrix had played here at least a few times prior to becoming famous. But I didn’t know he had been in Bobby Taylor’s group. Any recordings you know of?
Do you mean he grew up four blocks from where you lived in Seattle, or from where you live in Vancouver? (A lot of people don’t know his father was from here and Jimi lived here for one or two periods as a kid.)

[Greg]

Thanks, Morgan. For some reason I really like to hear about it when serious jazz people like R&B.

[John Doheny]

Greg,

As a kid in Seattle I lived for a while at 29th and Cherry, near what is now Martin Luther King Boulevard ( My wife and I were in Seattle a few weeks ago and had a bite at the Catfish Farm on MLK) . According to Hendix's biography " Voodoo Child in the Aquarian Age" he lived for a number of years a few blocks west on Cherry in an apartment with his father Al. The book also mentions his sojourn in Vancouver and his attendance at King George Secondary in the West End.

As far as I know there are no recordings of Hendrix with the Vancouvers. The story as I know it says that the band had a house gig at the Elegant Parlour on Davie, underneath the Retinal Circus ( the building is still there behind the gas station at Davie and Burrard) and Little Richard came through town and hired Jimi for his touring band. A lot of these stories I come by through Doug Cuthbert so I should really make an effort to get him to come here and tell them himself, since we seem to have established a little R&B sub-thread. I've been trying to get in touch with him to see if he knows how to contact Dale Jacobs but he's not answering his phone.

Morgan. R&B is your "not so secret love"? Ah, man, I knew you were a quality guy. And in the fortunate position of getting to discover, for the first time, this town's long and noble heritage in this genre. I would recommend you get your hands on the aforementioned cooker "Kingsize" by Jason Hoover and the Epics. You MUST hear the Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers LP ( as Tommy Chong puts it," The voice of an angel. The soul of a devil. "I've heard some out RAGEOUS stories on Bobby, far too scandalous to repeat here).I've seen it on CD at Virgin on Burrard. An album I've regretably lost somewhere years ago that I dearly wish somebody would put out on CD is the compilation "Live at the Grooveyard." The licensing would be a mega headache but it's got virtually ALL of the heavies from that (mid 60's) period, like the Shockers,the Shantelles, the Epics, the Night Train Revue ( killer version of Joe Tex's "The Letter Song") Soul Unlimited featuring the Raible Brothers etc.


When I first started playing strip joints up here in the early 70's the remnants of this scene were still around. The Club New Delhi on Main and Keefer, though it had more of less degenerated into a peeler bar by then, still had autographed pictures of the acts that used to play it on the wall in the dressing room, folks like Ike and Tina Turner and Bobby Moore and the Rhythm Aces. Kentish sat in with us there a couple of times, as did Freddy (Hose Nose) Cartenuto from Little Daddy and the Bachelors, and Robbie King from the Vancouvers. Greg I'm sure you're aware that Ted Lewis, the drummer with the Vancouvers, changed his name to Duris Maxwell and played with Powder Blues on their first few albums. And their rhythm guitar player Tommy Chong teamed up with Cheech Marin and made a bunch of dumb movies as Cheech and Chong. I'm pretty sure Henry Young played with some of these bands too. I know he played with Doug Cuthbert and Bobby Taylor when Bobby moved back here for a while about 10 years ago.

Most of these guys are 5 or 10 or more years older than me and they were sorta my heroes when I was 16 or 17. There wasn't the kind of divide between jazz and R&B that developed later on, I mean I certainly didn't see any contradiction in being into both Coltrane AND James Brown and I don't remember anyone else on the scene who felt that way either, aside from maybe the odd snob or two. And like I've said here before, a lot of my favorite players are at home in both camps ( Lee Allan, Tony Dagradi, Dave Say, Steve Hilliam, Stanley Turrentine, Ernie Watts, Alvin "Red" Tyler..Gee..All tenor players.hmmm) and I really think it gives their playing so much more depth.

[Greg]

Scintillating stuff!
No, I didn’t know about Ted Lewis, aka Duris Maxwell.
I have heard Henry Young several times, but was unaware of any connection with the others you mentioned.
So it was in Vancouver that Little Richard nabbed Hendrix!
As for Live at the Grooveyard, re-releasing it might not be so hard. One of the original members of the Night Train Revue, organist Chuck Cliff (husband of Suzanne Cliff, father of the Sweet Inspirations (two NTR singers whose names I don’t know) and the guy behind NTR’s revival), owns the rights. His e-mail address isn't hard to find.
But Christ Almighty, John, you’re a wealth of fascinating lore. Maybe, during your formative years, there was something emanating from Cherry Street.

[Brian Nation]

Loving jazz but not Rhythm & Blues is like loving a woman (or a man or whatever) and not having sex. Not sure that's a good analogy but you get my drift.

[Morgan Childs]

Brian, that's exactly what I would have said If I had ever had sex.... I imagine it's just like that.

[kentish]

Thank you Brian for making me smile today. It's nice to know that after all these years my presence is still felt. I ran for Mayor in '85, '86 and '89... although it was more like a slow crawl. I'm still in the West End and still singing with NTR, having a blast. More info later with anecdotes (when I next get to a computer!).

Love and blessings
Kentish

[Brian Nation]

Too bad this thread died such a sudden death, especially after hearing from Kentish himself. Maybe the photo I took of him last month will inspire a few more memories of that golden age of Vancouver R&B.

Greg? JD?

http://vancouverjazz.com/img/tmp/030624-263.jpg
Kentish Steele, English Bay June 2003, Photo by Brian Nation

[Greg]

You wouldn’t want to see the portrait in his attic.

Kentish looks younger than I do now, but he was definitely older than me the time he caught me and a friend trying to sneak into a Shantelles gig at Renfrew Park Community Centre.

I get an odd feeling moving back and forth between this thread and the Flat Five and Blue Horn. Nostalgia doesn’t entirely explain it because I’m too young to remember some of the people, places and music mentioned in the other thread. But I think it’s every bit as important to document this stuff as it was for Mark Miller to document Jelly Roll Morton’s Vancouver sojourn in Such Melodious Racket.

These threads are largely anecdotal, but the information is often corroborated by other people’s memories. Brian, your site is a tremendous benefit to Vancouver’s music and its history.

Speaking of history, I recently read a fascinating academic paper on the Northwest Sound written by Warren Gill, former bass player for the Spectres.
http://pnwbands.com/spectres.html

Near the beginning, the paper has a rather technical discussion of geographical research on music. Then it becomes quite readable and highly interesting, explaining with detail and insight how and why this distinctive R&B-influenced rock music evolved, why it had so little influence outside the region, why it declined, and how it remains as a regional tradition.

Along the way he mentions “one of the more unusual footnotes in Vancouver musical history. For a few years in the middle 1960s, Vancouver remained a musical anomaly in that many of its leading bands comprised local white sidemen fronted by a black singer, playing both Louie Louie and such polished Motown hits as The Temptations’ Get Ready.” That’s certainly the era of Kentish, Night Train Revue, Jason Hoover and the Epics, Gill’s own band and several others.

Among the many delights of Dr. Gill’s paper is an account of how Louie Louie became a regional anthem. At the last NTR gig I saw (in which, by the way, Sy Risby performed), the band inexplicably declined to play an encore. That left people complaining incredulously, “They didn’t play Louie Louie!”

Dr. Gill’s paper, Region, Agency and Popular Music: The Northwest Sound 1958-1966 appeared in The Canadian Geographer, Summer 1993. A quick Google search suggests it received wide academic exposure, but I wish it were more accessible outside academia. Like on the Web, maybe?

Two other, much shorter, accounts by ex-Shantelles Brian Tansley and Brian Pulham, can be read at http://theregents.net/shantelles.html
Why the hell don’t the local media ever write about this? Their interest in Vancouver’s music seems fixated on DOA and it sometimes seems their knowledge of any music goes back no further than the Yardbirds, that band named after “a Jack Kerouak novel.”

It would also be interesting to know what NTR organist Chuck Cliff intends to do with the recording Live at the Grooveyard. He owns the rights.

And somebody’s going to have to get Kentish in front of a computer again.

[Greg]

Kentish is missing from this photo
http://www.nighttrain.ca/
but won’t be, I hope, on October 10th.
Looks like NTR’s talented regulars will be there, including the impossibly beautiful Lovena Fox.
East End rulz, even on the west side.

[Greg]

I was looking around http://pnwbands.com/top20.html, part of a mammoth site that provides a separate web page for zillions of B.C. and Northwest rock and R&B acts (and jazz, in the case of Al Neil courtesy of Gregg Simpson: http://pnwbands.com/alneiltrio.html). It’s interesting to see that the ninth-most-visited band page for June (the most recent month compiled) was Kentish Steele and the Shantelles. They were just a notch behind Paul Revere and the Raiders, a world-famous band that had, at one time, a credible R&B influence.
In fact Kentish scored in the top 25 for each month going back to 2002. Then in 2002 he and the Shantelles scored ninth for the entire year.
That shows a hell of a lot of interest considering that this site lists a hell of a lot of bands.

And if you’ve never heard Richard Berry’s historic version of Louie Louie, there’s a snippet at: http://pnwbands.com/nwtributes.html (Actually, my favourite version is by Mongo Santamaria.)

[Greg]

John Doheny wrote:
An album I’ve regretably lost somewhere years ago that I dearly wish somebody would put out on CD is the compilation “Live at the Grooveyard.” The licensing would be a mega headache but it’s got virtually ALL of the heavies from that (mid 60’s) period, like the Shockers,the Shantelles, the Epics, the Night Train Revue ( killer version of Joe Tex’s “The Letter Song”) Soul Unlimited featuring the Raible Brothers etc.

It finally happened:
http://ns2.nukezone.com/~admin28/grooveyard.html

[Greg]

So my cheque finally cleared and they sent me a copy. Not surprisingly, some of this stuff doesn’t age well. But Kentish Steele, Jason Hoover, Sy Risby and Chuck Flintroy show real talent and are backed up by some tight playing.
My favourites remain The Letter Song and Ninety-Nine and a Half by the Night Train Revue, and Leaving Here by Kentish Steele and the Shantelles.
I think this CD reflects the distinctive Vancouver vibe that Warren Gill wrote about. Local bands would play a combination of R&B and the Northwest Sound, as well as cover versions of current rock hits. This unusual scene remained until the hippie movement transformed everything. To me, it was disheartening to see people shift their allegiance from James Brown to Jim Morrison.
Funny thing, the Kentish version of Land of a Thousand Dances shows a weird -- but cool, I now think -- collision of mid-60s soul with early psychedelia. At the time, I abhorred this hippie intrusion into R&B.
I’m really glad they’ve finally re-released this material, except for one thing. All my illusions, all I ever thought was good and beautiful and true -- not to put too fine a point on it, but my entire belief system -- has been shattered by James Anstey’s 2004 liner notes. It turns out that Live from the Grooveyard wasn’t recorded at the Grooveyard. It was recorded in a studio, albeit “live.” The only overdub was the ambient crowd noise, which came from the Arctic Club (although that gives this thread a little more validity on a jazz site).
The lack of applause is historically accurate. Back then Vancouverites were too cool to clap.

[Brian Nation]

This'll be of interest to fans of Kentish and the golden age of Vancouver R&B:

Oil Can Harry's Reunion with Kentish Steele (http://www.oilcanharrysreunion.com/)

[buddha111]

Found in the basement were some tapes from 1965/66 from the glory days of this fantastic band.They've been digitally re-mastered;the album is entitled "REWIND".You can hear the Shantelles in their two phases- plus horn section and without horn section - great either way.

Go to www.kentishsteele.com for ordering information.

[doug cuthbert]

As the former drummer for the Oil Can's weekday houseband with Kentish, Paul Dean and the late Brian Tingle, it is a pleasure to do a reunion with Kentish after all these years. It is March 12 at the Croatian Hall. There is a website regarding the event. :)

[Duris Maxwell]

I knew my ears were burning for some reason. I might be able to answer some of this stuff...and let the air out of some serious bs as well. I played (and recorded) with Jason Hoover; the Good Shepherds (which became 3/4 of Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers); Alexis Rose Radlin; Doucette; Powder Blues ('79 - '85); R&B All-Stars; Jim Byrnes and then back to UBC for a law degree. I cut half the tracks on Ron Irving's last cd; Billy Joe Green's; and now work with Johnny V. (I'm in the studio at the moment finishing our lastest cd. But the '60s scene was a trip (sorry)...and so is some of the story-telling about it. Any questions? Fire away, because I started working all the joints on the east side in 1960!

Here’s a long, rambling response to Morgan’s question. Be forewarned this might be off-topic for a jazz forum.
Kentish Steele is a talented singer who was one of the mainstays of this city’s thriving R&B scene in the 60s. I lost track of him for many years, probably because I spent most of my adult life outside Vancouver. (Did he win his bid for mayor?)
But I saw him last November, for the first time in yonks, when he sang at the Night Train Revue’s 40th anniversary gig. And again with NTR a month or two ago in Surrey. (My dentist and plastic surgeon have since warned me about Kentish Steele, NTR, and James Brown songs taken in combination.)
NTR’s lineup changes slightly on different dates, but the band has something like 17 players, including a five-piece horn section (with a fucking bari!).
And that’s not counting the singers. Again the lineup varies, but could include Suzanne Cliff, her two daughters, Billy Dixon, Harry Walker, Sybel Thrasher and Hans Stamer, as well as Steele. Carl Graves flew in from LA for the 40th anniversary gig. I heard Jason Hoover was invited, but couldn’t make it.
Most of these singers, like Steele, fronted their own bands during R&B’s halcyon days.
Brian Tansley and Brian Pulham, sax and bass players respectively with Steele, each provides a good account of the period (and of the Northwest Sound, an Oregon-Washington-B.C. rock style with a strong R&B influence) at http://theregents.net/shantelles.html
These days, NTR gigs usually sell out in advance with little or no publicity. I learn of them through the occasional three-line blurb appearing in the Queue music listings, which come with the Thursday Sun. If you like James Brown, Aretha, Redding, Pickett, the Stax-Volt crowd and so on, you’ll want to check out NTR.
John, I agree that King Size is a great fucking tune, something of a tour de force (even if the back-up vocals are a little, umm, off). Also, as a Vancouver native I’m flattered that a Seattle expatriate, who arrived in the early 70s after all that had peaked, appreciates this city’s R&B heritage. Of course, you have an R&B background yourself.
But enough about the past. Morgan asked what kind of music Steele does now and where he performs. All I know of are the NTR gigs. Maybe he’s up to other stuff as well.
Talk to us, Kentish!

[Duris Maxwell]

That's ok Greg, I didn't know about you either

Scintillating stuff!
No, I didn’t know about Ted Lewis, aka Duris Maxwell.
I have heard Henry Young several times, but was unaware of any connection with the others you mentioned.
So it was in Vancouver that Little Richard nabbed Hendrix!
As for Live at the Grooveyard, re-releasing it might not be so hard. One of the original members of the Night Train Revue, organist Chuck Cliff (husband of Suzanne Cliff, father of the Sweet Inspirations (two NTR singers whose names I don’t know) and the guy behind NTR’s revival), owns the rights. His e-mail address isn't hard to find.
But Christ Almighty, John, you’re a wealth of fascinating lore. Maybe, during your formative years, there was something emanating from Cherry Street.
;)

[Duris Maxwell]

Hi Guys:

I played in the house band at the Elegant Parlour...with 'The Good Shepherds' (see www.pacificnorthwestbands.com) starting late 1965 or early 1966 (I'm pretty sure of this because it was when my son was born.) I first saw Tommy Chong at the 'New Delhi' in 1960 with 'The Calgary Shades'...the coolest R&B band I'd ever seen. It included Sonny Carruthers (drums), Wes Henderson (bass), Bernie Sneed (keyboards), and Tommy Chong (guitar). A few years later I was playing with 'Little Daddy and the Bachelors: Tommy Chong, Wes, Tommy Melton (vocals), Freddie Carotenuto (wrong spelling, sorry Freddie) (tenor sax) and myself - I was called Ted Lewis then (before I changed my name legally to Duris Maxwell in 1970). We played a horrible old theatre on Alma & Broadway called 'The Blues Palace'. We opened for the original 'Ike & Tina Turner Revue' one night...THAT was a trip! But (fast forward to the Elegant Parlour again), 'The Good Shepherds' became 3/4 of 'Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers' in 1967 and signed to Motown (Berry Gordy "produced" our first album too). But the only time I ever saw Jimi Hendrix was when he sat in with us in London, England at the Marquee in 1968. That's also where Jimi asked me to join his band. I declined. Why? Because I was signed to Motown and was brought-up to honour contracts/aggreements. I was too young to realize that Motown could have cared less about me, or I would have jumped at the chance. As for Doug Cuthbert? Let's just say it's too bad he wasn't half as creative as a drummer as he tries to be an historian. ;) Greg,

As a kid in Seattle I lived for a while at 29th and Cherry, near what is now Martin Luther King Boulevard ( My wife and I were in Seattle a few weeks ago and had a bite at the Catfish Farm on MLK) . According to Hendix's biography " Voodoo Child in the Aquarian Age" he lived for a number of years a few blocks west on Cherry in an apartment with his father Al. The book also mentions his sojourn in Vancouver and his attendance at King George Secondary in the West End.

As far as I know there are no recordings of Hendrix with the Vancouvers. The story as I know it says that the band had a house gig at the Elegant Parlour on Davie, underneath the Retinal Circus ( the building is still there behind the gas station at Davie and Burrard) and Little Richard came through town and hired Jimi for his touring band. A lot of these stories I come by through Doug Cuthbert so I should really make an effort to get him to come here and tell them himself, since we seem to have established a little R&B sub-thread. I've been trying to get in touch with him to see if he knows how to contact Dale Jacobs but he's not answering his phone.

Morgan. R&B is your "not so secret love"? Ah, man, I knew you were a quality guy. And in the fortunate position of getting to discover, for the first time, this town's long and noble heritage in this genre. I would recommend you get your hands on the aforementioned cooker "Kingsize" by Jason Hoover and the Epics. You MUST hear the Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers LP ( as Tommy Chong puts it," The voice of an angel. The soul of a devil. "I've heard some out RAGEOUS stories on Bobby, far too scandalous to repeat here).I've seen it on CD at Virgin on Burrard. An album I've regretably lost somewhere years ago that I dearly wish somebody would put out on CD is the compilation "Live at the Grooveyard." The licensing would be a mega headache but it's got virtually ALL of the heavies from that (mid 60's) period, like the Shockers,the Shantelles, the Epics, the Night Train Revue ( killer version of Joe Tex's "The Letter Song") Soul Unlimited featuring the Raible Brothers etc.


When I first started playing strip joints up here in the early 70's the remnants of this scene were still around. The Club New Delhi on Main and Keefer, though it had more of less degenerated into a peeler bar by then, still had autographed pictures of the acts that used to play it on the wall in the dressing room, folks like Ike and Tina Turner and Bobby Moore and the Rhythm Aces. Kentish sat in with us there a couple of times, as did Freddy (Hose Nose) Cartenuto from Little Daddy and the Bachelors, and Robbie King from the Vancouvers. Greg I'm sure you're aware that Ted Lewis, the drummer with the Vancouvers, changed his name to Duris Maxwell and played with Powder Blues on their first few albums. And their rhythm guitar player Tommy Chong teamed up with Cheech Marin and made a bunch of dumb movies as Cheech and Chong. I'm pretty sure Henry Young played with some of these bands too. I know he played with Doug Cuthbert and Bobby Taylor when Bobby moved back here for a while about 10 years ago.

Most of these guys are 5 or 10 or more years older than me and they were sorta my heroes when I was 16 or 17. There wasn't the kind of divide between jazz and R&B that developed later on, I mean I certainly didn't see any contradiction in being into both Coltrane AND James Brown and I don't remember anyone else on the scene who felt that way either, aside from maybe the odd snob or two. And like I've said here before, a lot of my favorite players are at home in both camps ( Lee Allan, Tony Dagradi, Dave Say, Steve Hilliam, Stanley Turrentine, Ernie Watts, Alvin "Red" Tyler..Gee..All tenor players.hmmm) and I really think it gives their playing so much more depth.

[Duris Maxwell]

It's great to see so much interest in Vancouver's "early" music history. And there's a lot of stuff to discuss. But I must say that my friend Bobby Taylor has been slagged in the process - thus far. Tommy Chong's remark "the soul of a devil" is particularly offensive given its defamatory nature. Let's remember we are talking about the '60! A period of astounding recklessness for many people. When I think back on my own behaviour during that time I am both horrified and deeply saddened that I was ever at a point of such utter disregard for my own physical and mental well-being. Many of us simply popped things into our mouths and swallowed without any concern for what it really was, where it came from, or who messed with it last. Out of this insanity comes Tommy Chong and Cheech Marin - who proceeded to make a career (and a fortune) out of trivializing drug abuse...and contending that anyone who expressed concerns about this stuff was just an uptight asshole. Well, I have crossed-out over 70 names of players I either worked with or around. They're all dead! How fucking funny is it now Tommy? No, Bobby Taylor was the greatest lead singer I ever worked with...and he was one of the deepest musicians as well. He could arrange five part vocal harmony with less effort than most of us burn-up sorting our mail. And he NEVER lost what note anyone should sing anywhere in the arrangement. And he could write. And he was hilarious...and bold as love. But he was, and remains, my friend...and I love him dearly. And he wasn't the reason Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers started to fall apart - Tommy was. We all signed to Motown together: Robbie King, Ed Patterson, Wes Henderson, Bobby Taylor, Tommy Chong, and myself. But Tommy called a meeting one night in Detroit. He wanted to desolve the original contract and re-sign two new contracts: one with himself, Bobby, and Wes; and the other with Robbie, Eddie, and myself. This would have effectively turned Robbie, Eddie, and myself into instant side-men at Tommy's "pleasure" re pay, royalties, etc. (And Tommy was the cheapest "leader" I ever worked with.) The budding lawyer in me screamed "Bullshit!" at Tommy's gambit (I now have a law degree by the way), and I stormed out of the meeting and caught the next flight back to Vancouver. Tommy phoned his boneheaded pal David Graham and told him that I "was afraid of success"...which David was only too happy to spread all over town. And let's also remember that there are still people who are alive and well who were at that meeting. Bobby phoned me from Detroit to see how I was doing and if I'd come back. I said "no"...and I never regreted taking that stand - although I missed working with Bobby and the other guys. But not on Tommy's outrageous terms. So here we are...just me and the truth. I think we're more than any nay-sayers can deal with. Greg,

As a kid in Seattle I lived for a while at 29th and Cherry, near what is now Martin Luther King Boulevard ( My wife and I were in Seattle a few weeks ago and had a bite at the Catfish Farm on MLK) . According to Hendix's biography " Voodoo Child in the Aquarian Age" he lived for a number of years a few blocks west on Cherry in an apartment with his father Al. The book also mentions his sojourn in Vancouver and his attendance at King George Secondary in the West End.

As far as I know there are no recordings of Hendrix with the Vancouvers. The story as I know it says that the band had a house gig at the Elegant Parlour on Davie, underneath the Retinal Circus ( the building is still there behind the gas station at Davie and Burrard) and Little Richard came through town and hired Jimi for his touring band. A lot of these stories I come by through Doug Cuthbert so I should really make an effort to get him to come here and tell them himself, since we seem to have established a little R&B sub-thread. I've been trying to get in touch with him to see if he knows how to contact Dale Jacobs but he's not answering his phone.

Morgan. R&B is your "not so secret love"? Ah, man, I knew you were a quality guy. And in the fortunate position of getting to discover, for the first time, this town's long and noble heritage in this genre. I would recommend you get your hands on the aforementioned cooker "Kingsize" by Jason Hoover and the Epics. You MUST hear the Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers LP ( as Tommy Chong puts it," The voice of an angel. The soul of a devil. "I've heard some out RAGEOUS stories on Bobby, far too scandalous to repeat here).I've seen it on CD at Virgin on Burrard. An album I've regretably lost somewhere years ago that I dearly wish somebody would put out on CD is the compilation "Live at the Grooveyard." The licensing would be a mega headache but it's got virtually ALL of the heavies from that (mid 60's) period, like the Shockers,the Shantelles, the Epics, the Night Train Revue ( killer version of Joe Tex's "The Letter Song") Soul Unlimited featuring the Raible Brothers etc.


When I first started playing strip joints up here in the early 70's the remnants of this scene were still around. The Club New Delhi on Main and Keefer, though it had more of less degenerated into a peeler bar by then, still had autographed pictures of the acts that used to play it on the wall in the dressing room, folks like Ike and Tina Turner and Bobby Moore and the Rhythm Aces. Kentish sat in with us there a couple of times, as did Freddy (Hose Nose) Cartenuto from Little Daddy and the Bachelors, and Robbie King from the Vancouvers. Greg I'm sure you're aware that Ted Lewis, the drummer with the Vancouvers, changed his name to Duris Maxwell and played with Powder Blues on their first few albums. And their rhythm guitar player Tommy Chong teamed up with Cheech Marin and made a bunch of dumb movies as Cheech and Chong. I'm pretty sure Henry Young played with some of these bands too. I know he played with Doug Cuthbert and Bobby Taylor when Bobby moved back here for a while about 10 years ago.

Most of these guys are 5 or 10 or more years older than me and they were sorta my heroes when I was 16 or 17. There wasn't the kind of divide between jazz and R&B that developed later on, I mean I certainly didn't see any contradiction in being into both Coltrane AND James Brown and I don't remember anyone else on the scene who felt that way either, aside from maybe the odd snob or two. And like I've said here before, a lot of my favorite players are at home in both camps ( Lee Allan, Tony Dagradi, Dave Say, Steve Hilliam, Stanley Turrentine, Ernie Watts, Alvin "Red" Tyler..Gee..All tenor players.hmmm) and I really think it gives their playing so much more depth.

[John Doheny]

It's John Doheny. I don't know if you remember me, but I was the tenor player in Kenny Brown's band. We opened a lot of shows for Powder Blues when you were on the band, since Kenny and Tom were tight, and I also have a vivid memory of you tuning our drummer's kit for him at the old Rohan's while humming "Have Love, Will Travel" and muttering under your breath.

Since it's mostly my natterings you're deconstructing here I thought I'd tip in and say I have absolutely no objection. As I believe I made clear in the original post, I come by most of this stuff second hand. You vas dere, Cholly. Somewhere up the thread someone says (it might even have been me) that it sure would be nice if some of the O.G.'s from back in the day came by to give it to us straight, and next thing you know, Kentish shows up. Then Dougie (the nose) Cuthbert, and now you. Man I was just in the Winn Dixie on Tchoupitoulas street the other day and Heart's "Magic Man" came on. I never liked that song, always twisted the dial when it came on the radio, but this time I noticed "hey, that drummer's playing some hip shit on there" and if I'm not mistaken, that drummer is you.

As for the Bobby Taylor/Tommy Chong quote, it was in no way meant as disrespectful of Bobby. I didn't repeat the story that goes with it because it really was outrageous and innappropriate for this forum (and as you point out, ain't very many of us would want our private lives in those days examined too closely in a public purvue. I'm no exception) and in any case I (once again) got it second hand, and from a source you insinuate is perhaps not entirely reliable.I wish to hell I'd bought that CD copy of "The Vancouvers" that I saw at Virgin in Vancouver 10 years ago. I long ago lost my vinyl copy, and I'm reduced to a cassette dub that's starting to get 'dropouts' on it. But I still get chills when I pop in "Day By Day or Never" and it gets to that part where he tears into "I got to..HOOOLD TIGHT..baby...DAY AND NIGHT.."etc. That's as good as it gets in this world, bruh.

Speaking of which, you seem to be saying Bobby's still with us. I heard a rumor a few years back that he was sick. Where is he, and what's he doing? And where are you and what are you up to? Bob Buckley and I were talking a few years ago and you're name came up, and we wondered where you were.

I moved to New Orleans a couple of years ago, but I'll be in Vancouver this summer to play some gigs at jazzfest. Are you playing these days? I'd love to hear what you're up to, musically. And please, keep posting.

[Duris Maxwell]

John! Don't you love this cyber-nation? We have GOT to hook-up...the double, mocka, frapa-cheeno, soy, organic, Americano will be on me :)
It's John Doheny. I don't know if you remember me, but I was the tenor player in Kenny Brown's band. We opened a lot of shows for Powder Blues when you were on the band, since Kenny and Tom were tight, and I also have a vivid memory of you tuning our drummer's kit for him at the old Rohan's while humming "Have Love, Will Travel" and muttering under your breath.

Since it's mostly my natterings you're deconstructing here I thought I'd tip in and say I have absolutely no objection. As I believe I made clear in the original post, I come by most of this stuff second hand. You vas dere, Cholly. Somewhere up the thread someone says (it might even have been me) that it sure would be nice if some of the O.G.'s from back in the day came by to give it to us straight, and next thing you know, Kentish shows up. Then Dougie (the nose) Cuthbert, and now you. Man I was just in the Winn Dixie on Tchoupitoulas street the other day and Heart's "Magic Man" came on. I never liked that song, always twisted the dial when it came on the radio, but this time I noticed "hey, that drummer's playing some hip shit on there" and if I'm not mistaken, that drummer is you.

As for the Bobby Taylor/Tommy Chong quote, it was in no way meant as disrespectful of Bobby. I didn't repeat the story that goes with it because it really was outrageous and innappropriate for this forum (and as you point out, ain't very many of us would want our private lives in those days examined too closely in a public purvue. I'm no exception) and in any case I (once again) got it second hand, and from a source you insinuate is perhaps not entirely reliable.I wish to hell I'd bought that CD copy of "The Vancouvers" that I saw at Virgin in Vancouver 10 years ago. I long ago lost my vinyl copy, and I'm reduced to a cassette dub that's starting to get 'dropouts' on it. But I still get chills when I pop in "Day By Day or Never" and it gets to that part where he tears into "I got to..HOOOLD TIGHT..baby...DAY AND NIGHT.."etc. That's as good as it gets in this world, bruh.

Speaking of which, you seem to be saying Bobby's still with us. I heard a rumor a few years back that he was sick. Where is he, and what's he doing? And where are you and what are you up to? Bob Buckley and I were talking a few years ago and you're name came up, and we wondered where you were.

I moved to New Orleans a couple of years ago, but I'll be in Vancouver this summer to play some gigs at jazzfest. Are you playing these days? I'd love to hear what you're up to, musically. And please, keep posting.

[John Doheny]

Awrite! I'll drop you a line after I get up there. But make mine a regular coffee. Bitter, like my personality.:-)

[Russell Chan]

Man I was just in the Winn Dixie on Tchoupitoulas street the other day and Heart's "Magic Man" came on. I never liked that song, always twisted the dial when it came on the radio, but this time I noticed "hey, that drummer's playing some hip shit on there" and if I'm not mistaken, that drummer is you.



As I recall, Kat Hendriske (sp?) was the drummer on Magic Man. Is that
right Duris?

[Russell Chan]

Duris,

I noticed that you left Skylark off of your list of accomplishments. Any reason for that? It would be great to hear about the early days of Skylark and how you all dealt with success. I played with Steve Pugsley in the late 1970's and heard some of the stories! One of my most impressionable moments of my youth was watching one of Skylark's first gigs ( I think ) at the Agridome at the PNE. It was you, David Foster, Pugsley, Doug Edwards, BJ Cook, Donnie Gerrard and another singer and you guys we're smokin' on 'Woodstock' by Crosby, Stills, and Nash. It was a music trade fair show ( like a small NAMM show ) and I was behind you guys above the stage looking down on the band. The thing I remember most was all of the amazing 'ghost notes' you were playing with your right hand...... as I recall you play left-handed. I also saw you once at the Hollywood Palace here in LA with Powder Blues and you really laid down that Chicago shuffle like no one else!


Russell Chan

[Duris Maxwell]

Hi Russell! Thank you for remembering all this. But if I mentioned every band I ever played with every time I wrote something, my friends would just beat the crap outta me. Re Skylark's "success". What success? For me there was nothing like that. I've never received a dime for playing on 'Wildflower' for example. The only good thing about Skylark was playing with Steve. To this day I still say he's in the top 5% in the world. His note selection was so ahead of its time; simply fantastic. And his technique was beautiful...and he's a great guy. Not bad. And about my "ghost notes". The big secret is that I'm actually right handed! I just set up "backwards" because it's more logical in my respectful opinion. I think hi-hat, left side; ride cymbal, right side etc. should be called left handed. Because it would be more logical to play (traditional grip) palm under left hand if you were left handed. Got all that? :) Anyway, thanks for caring buddy. And by the way, I'm still playing! And a crushing new CD with Johnny V. due out shortly will prove it. Take care, DurisDuris,

I noticed that you left Skylark off of your list of accomplishments. Any reason for that? It would be great to hear about the early days of Skylark and how you all dealt with success. I played with Steve Pugsley in the late 1970's and heard some of the stories! One of my most impressionable moments of my youth was watching one of Skylark's first gigs ( I think ) at the Agridome at the PNE. It was you, David Foster, Pugsley, Doug Edwards, BJ Cook, Donnie Gerrard and another singer and you guys we're smokin' on 'Woodstock' by Crosby, Stills, and Nash. It was a music trade fair show ( like a small NAMM show ) and I was behind you guys above the stage looking down on the band. The thing I remember most was all of the amazing 'ghost notes' you were playing with your right hand...... as I recall you play left-handed. I also saw you once at the Hollywood Palace here in LA with Powder Blues and you really laid down that Chicago shuffle like no one else!


Russell Chan

[Russell Chan]

That really interesting information about the way you set your kit (BTW, I'm not really a drummer but a guitarist) So, you set up your Hihat on the right, play it with your right hand and play the bass drum with your left foot. Do you set up your ride on the hihat side?

I heard from Steve that you cut "What Would I Do Without You" (Skylark) in one take on Hal Blaine's drums at Capital Records in Hollywood. Did you re-arrange his drums to match your setup or did you just play his kit as-is? As an amateur drummer, I find this fascinating information and I used to hang out at Drums Only on Kingsway back in the late 1970s.. I was there the day you bought Jerry Adolphe a snare drum!

I don't think we've ever actually met but I used to play in New Breed when Steve, Lou Hoover, and Dave Pickell were in the band. I also recorded stuff for Dale Jacobs and Doug Louie at Total Sound on 4th Ave.

It's great you're still playing!!!!!

Russell

Hi Russell! Thank you for remembering all this. But if I mentioned every band I ever played with every time I wrote something, my friends would just beat the crap outta me. Re Skylark's "success". What success? For me there was nothing like that. I've never received a dime for playing on 'Wildflower' for example. The only good thing about Skylark was playing with Steve. To this day I still say he's in the top 5% in the world. His note selection was so ahead of its time; simply fantastic. And his technique was beautiful...and he's a great guy. Not bad. And about my "ghost notes". The big secret is that I'm actually right handed! I just set up "backwards" because it's more logical in my respectful opinion. I think hi-hat, left side; ride cymbal, right side etc. should be called left handed. Because it would be more logical to play (traditional grip) palm under left hand if you were left handed. Got all that? :) Anyway, thanks for caring buddy. And by the way, I'm still playing! And a crushing new CD with Johnny V. due out shortly will prove it. Take care, Duris

[Duris Maxwell]

Hi Russell:

Nope, my main ride cymbals are on my left. I say "main" because there will be five ride cymbals in my new kit, three on the left ( 22" dry; 22" Rock; 20" Dark Sizzle), and two off the right side of my hi-hat (24" K Zildjian and an 18 Dry Ride.)...plus 11 crashes and "effect" cymbals. Why so many? Tone options. And since I'm as comfortable playing ride with my right hand, snare left hand as I am ride left, snare right why not take the fullest possible advantage of that luxury.

I honestly don't remember if I ever played Hal Blaine's kit...I kinda doubt it actually. But yeah, buying that snare drum for my friend Jerry was just the best. You should have seen the look on his face! As he was walking out of the store I said "Hey Jerry, you forgot something!" He started looking for his car keys!! It just blew him away.

Yes, we have a lot of history in common. I hope we can hook-up sometime; coffee's on me.

That really interesting information about the way you set your kit (BTW, I'm not really a drummer but a guitarist) So, you set up your Hihat on the right, play it with your right hand and play the bass drum with your left foot. Do you set up your ride on the hihat side?

I heard from Steve that you cut "What Would I Do Without You" (Skylark) in one take on Hal Blaine's drums at Capital Records in Hollywood. Did you re-arrange his drums to match your setup or did you just play his kit as-is? As an amateur drummer, I find this fascinating information and I used to hang out at Drums Only on Kingsway back in the late 1970s.. I was there the day you bought Jerry Adolphe a snare drum!

I don't think we've ever actually met but I used to play in New Breed when Steve, Lou Hoover, and Dave Pickell were in the band. I also recorded stuff for Dale Jacobs and Doug Louie at Total Sound on 4th Ave.

It's great you're still playing!!!!!

Russell

[buddha111]

Ted Lewis was a bully on the Lord Kitchener playground and he writes these posts as if he is still strutting around in his leather, beating up the little kids who wouldn't give him marbles.
Sure he is a great drummer, but there are many other people out there who were part of the scene in the late 60's who made a difference.

[Allan Johnston]

At least he has the guts to post, and with his own name (two of 'em, even). Tell him yours - maybe you'll get your marbles back.

Al

PS: Care to name any of those other drummers of the late '60's that made a difference, or was that not your point?

[buddha111]

Vancouver Bands - late 60's - the better drummers:

Doug Cuthbert - Night Train Revue
Bud Currie - The Viscounts (he could sing too)
Dave MacPhail - The Epics
Jim Wisby- Surf Club House Band
Ray Ayotte -The Shantelles(best fill -in drummer ever)
Kat Hendrikse - just about every good band around

Most unique style....period.... from Seattle:
Bob Bennett ....the reason the band was called "The Sonics"....you could feel them 2 blocks away........

[Duris Maxwell]

Hi buddaha111:

So lovely to hear from you. And to think of any of the thousands of things you could have mentioned and you come up with this shit. I'm sure there are any number of things I would do differently if given the chance, unlike you who seems to have lead a flawless life. There were a lot of troubled kids at that school...and Lord Byng. Fortunately, some of us found a more productive way to act-out. I see you're still working on that; stay with it jerkoff, being developmentally arrested isn't always the kiss of death.

And Kat is the one who seems to think he was the only drummer in Vancouver in the 60's (see his Roland Interview). I, on the other hand, got out and watched every drummer playing at the time - a short list well-provided by you. And there were several dozen others including Terry Clark. I learned from everyone of them - things to do and things not to do.

But do see someone about all that venom...it will rot your miserable little guts right out.

Duris Maxwell

Ted Lewis was a bully on the Lord Kitchener playground and he writes these posts as if he is still strutting around in his leather, beating up the little kids who wouldn't give him marbles.
Sure he is a great drummer, but there are many other people out there who were part of the scene in the late 60's who made a difference.

[doug cuthbert]

Thank you for placing my name at the top of the list for the better drummers of the '60s in Vancouver, but if this is a "Jazz" forum and in the '60s the music was dance halls and small arenas rock'n'roll rhythm & blues Dance Music, the better jazz drummers list would have to start with the late great Al Wertz.
Doug Cuthbert

[Duris Maxwell]

Exactly. And Terry Clark, Blaine Wykjord, Jim Chivers, George Urson, and my favorate, Billy Boyle.

Thank you for placing my name at the top of the list for the better drummers of the '60s in Vancouver, but if this is a "Jazz" forum and in the '60s the music was dance halls and small arenas rock'n'roll rhythm & blues Dance Music, the better jazz drummers list would have to start with the late great Al Wertz.
Doug Cuthbert

[John Doheny]

I had the priviledge of doing some recording with George Ursan about 10 years back, and it was one of the greatest musical experiences of my life. Not only does the guy have sterling technique and a great ear, but his playing manages to elevate the whole ensemble onto a higher level of swing, even when the function of the drums is not obvious. I found I was playing much, much better without exactly knowing why this was so. Then, upon reviewing the tapes, I could hear that George was creating this wonderous pocket through the use of all sorts of understated little devices and subdivisions.


Truly one of the old-school "Vancouver Heavies," and richly deserving of his reputation among the cats.

[John Doheny]

...Doug, Duris, and anyone else who's unaware of this. There's an "Al Wiertz" thread here in jazz history. I started it a few years back because I thought Al was a greatly underappreciated guy on the Vancouver scene, both as a musician and as a 'character.'

Any contributions you guys would care to make, I'm sure Al would appreciate. I know I would.


I miss that guy.

[Allan Johnston]

Exactly. And Terry Clark, Blaine Wykjord, Jim Chivers, George Urson, and my favorate, Billy Boyle.

Anybody know if Jim Chivers is still playing? I heard he moved to Seattle a few years back. He was always a gas to play with. Some of the first "real" jazz playing I did when I broke out of Cap was with him on drums and Ted Quinlan on guitar...talk about breaking in! We were a back up band for a sax player, and those two really taught me how to hang out like a jazz pro, instead of like a jazz student! ;-)

Al

[John Doheny]

I heard that Jim was managing a country club or something, although I'm damned if I can remember who I heard that from.

I used to see Ted occasionally when I lived in Toronto in the late 80s.

[John Doheny]

Just remembered where I heard the Jim Chivers-country club story.

It was from *drum roll*


Al Wiertz.:-)

[LAZZ]

Chivers spotted recently on Vancouver Island.
More news as it comes in.

[Allan Johnston]

Was he playing, Lazz?!